【世事关心】美政府重创中兴 影响超过贸易战

【新唐人北京时间2018年05月02日讯】【世事关心】(467)美政府重创中兴 影响超过贸易战:禁止美国公司在未来7年内向中兴通讯出售技术,中国大陆其他公司是否会引以为戒?知识产权被盗对于美国造成的损失有多严重?中国大陆能否通过窃取别人的技术而成为科技大国?如果国家安全问题变得突出,能否解决这个问题?

ZTE got hit hard. Will China learn its lesson?

“A prevailing mindset in China is that cheating is not shameful; it is a shame only when you get caught. ”

How damaging is intellectual property theft to America?

Riley Water(传统基金会亚洲研究中心政策研究员):“我担心的是,美国可能会失去在新技术上的竞争优势。”
“There are concerns, I think, that the United States might potentially lose its competitive edge over emerging technologies. ”

Can China become a tech superpower by stealing other people’s technology?

“ It’s a blunder to assume that stealing away design drawings or secret data means mastering knowledge. ”

and if national security issues elevate, can it be resolved?

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):欢迎收看《世事关心》,我是萧茗。长期以来,中共一直在进行违反自由贸易原则的不公平贸易活动。中国大陆的公司也以违规和盗窃知识产权而知名。中共宣称自己要成为世界的技术领导者。可是一个依靠窃取技术,而不是自主创新的国家能成为技术领导者吗?美国又应该担心什么呢?中共能否通过经济扩张,使自己那套行事方式代替西方的商业伦理?这一期的《世事关心》,我们来探讨这些问题。
Welcome to 《Zooming In》. I’m Simone Gao. China has long been involved in unfair trade practices that are illegal under free-trade rules. Chinese companies are also known for violating regulations and stealing intellectual property. China has said it wants to become the world’s leader in technology. But can a country that relies on stealing research instead of innovation ever become a true tech leader? What should the U.S. be worried about? And will China’s economic expansion replace Western business ethics with the Chinese Communist Party’s way of doing things? We’ll explore these questions and more in this episode of 《Zooming In》.

The state-owned enterprise, ZTE, is China’s second largest telecommunications equipment company. It uses Google’s Android system and incorporates US chips and technology in its smartphones. It has violated US export regulations for several years by shipping telecommunications equipment to Iran and North Korea.

In 2010, ZTE sold the Iranian regime a surveillance system capable of spying on its own citizens through landline, mobile, and internet communications. ZTE continued selling US technology to Iran despite America’s longtime ban on selling non-humanitarian items.

2016年3月,因“中兴”违规向伊朗出售美制高科技设备,美国政府对其实施了禁运。 美国商务部公布了“中兴”的法律部门的备忘录,显示该公司具体指导员工如何建立空壳公司,以摆脱美国出口管制。
In March 2016, the US restricted sales to ZTE for exporting US-made high-tech goods to Iran. The Commerce Department released memos from ZTE’s legal department showing a step-by-step guide to setting up shell companies to skirt US export controls.

In March 2017, Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross announced a $1.19 billion dollar penalty for ZTE’s export violations to Iran and North Korea.

Wilbur Ross(美国商务部长): “我们这么做是昭告世人——不公平贸易的时代结束了。那些无视我国经济制裁,违反出口管制条例和其它贸易制度的人,不可能逃脱惩罚,他们将承担最严重的后果。 ‘中兴’的案子只是起点,川普政府会尽力执行严格的贸易政策,一定要维护国家安全和美国工人的利益。‘中兴’公司厚颜无耻的违法行径危害国家安全,令人愤慨。一旦法院批准,‘中兴’将立即支付八亿九千两百万美元的罚款,另有三亿美元的罚款将缓期七年执行。‘中兴’还同意接受剥夺七年出口特权的缓期处罚。这两项处罚都有长期震慑作用。如果未来‘中兴’违反协议,处罚将被立即执行。”
“ With this action, we are putting the world on notice: improper trade games are over. Those who flout our economic sanctions, export control laws, and any other trade regimes, will not go unpunished – they will suffer the harshest of consequences. But this case is just the beginning: Under President Trump’s leadership, we will be aggressively enforcing strong trade policies with the dual purpose of protecting American national security and protecting American workers. ZTE, whose brazen disregard for our laws was as insulting as it was dangerous, will, if approved by the court, first pay an immediate out-of-pocket monetary penalty of 892 million dollars. ZTE has then further agreed to a 7-year suspended denial order and a 7-year 300 million dollar suspended fine, both of which provide long-term deterrence. If they step out of line, those penalties will be immediately imposed.”

“中兴”的确违规了。商务部确认,在“中兴”因之前违规而被监督的2016和2017年间,该公司做了虚假陈述,掩盖了其向从事非法行为的员工支付全额奖金的事实,这些违规的员工本应受到惩罚。商务部称,“中兴通讯”承认违反了380项规定。 2018年4月16日,美国商务部禁止美国公司在未来7年内向“中兴通讯”出售技术。
And they did step out of line. The Department of Commerce determined that ZTE made false statements in 2016 and in 2017 during the probationary period. ZTE covered up the fact that they paid full bonuses to employees who engaged in illegal conduct. They were supposed to have punished them instead. The DOC announcement said ZTE admitted committing 380 regulations violations. On April 16, 2018, the Department of Commerce banned US companies from selling technology to ZTE for 7 years.

Following the DOC’s announcement, several Mainland Chinese media reported one of ZTE’s upstream companies has ordered over 1000 employees who are working for ZTE to take an indefinite vacation. A number of the ZTE production lines have stopped operating. However, this report was quickly removed from all Mainland Chinese media. An NTD TV reporter contacted a ZTE service partner, who confirmed the indefinite vacation.

电话采访(与中兴通讯有业务联系的先生):“‘ 中兴’是我们的固定客户,我怎么知道放几天,我看他们朋友圈发的,具体几天不知道。”
“ZTE is my client, I saw they sent out the message that they were asked to go on vacation, but I don’t how many days. ”

According to the report, 80,000 ZTE employees, together with its service providers, channel providers, and partners are all heavily affected.

4月20日,在“中兴通讯”新闻发布会上,总裁殷一民表示美国商务部的决定是完全不公平的。 他表示“中兴通讯”有整个国家的支持。
On April 20, at a ZTE press conference, its president Yin Yimin described the US Department of Commerce’s decision as utterly unfair. He said ZTE has the backing of the entire nation.

殷一民(中兴总裁):“‘ 中兴通讯产品’在国内有市场,有13亿人的支持。我相信‘中兴’可以克服这一挑战。”
ZTE products have a market here domestically, with the backing of 1.3 billion people. We are confident that we can overcome this challenge.

25-30% of ZTE’s parts are made in the US. Yin Yimin said the ban will put ZTE into shock.

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):关于“中兴”事件, 早些时候我和资深政治评论员文昭先生有过讨论,一起来听一下。
I discussed the ZTE incident with senior political commentator Wen Zhao. Here’s what he has to say.

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“美国商务部的声明中写到,‘中兴’在这个过程中违反规定380次,掩盖违规行为96次。这其中就包括他们隐瞒了对那些涉事员工发奖金的事情 。最后‘中兴’反驳的时候又说,我们怎么可能为了这几个员工甘愿承担三亿美元的惩罚?好像美国的指控非常荒谬。我认为他们的行为确实不可理解,已经是在被审查期间了,为什么知道有可能被严厉惩罚,还要继续给那些员工发奖金?还要继续通过中介公司向伊朗和朝鲜出售技术?这些国企他们的心态到底是什么样的?”
“The DOC Letter states that ZTE admitted 380 regulation violations and 96 evasion violations, including the fact that they gave out bonuses to employees involved. ZTE protested they would never take the risk of a penalty of $300 million US dollars for those employees, as though the U.S. allegations were ridiculous. It’s indeed very hard to understand Why they still give out bonuses to those employees, Why they still sell technologies to Iran and North Korea knowing they would be severely punished if they get caught? What mentality was in those state-owned enterprises?”

“ For Americans, it doesn’t matter whatever motives these Chinese companies had for choosing to repeatedly cheat. What does matter is that they did it. They actually did it and therefore must pay for it. Various possibilities. Maybe their management department just thought Americans wouldn’t mind trivialities like bonuses and wouldn’t follow up. Or they might believe those employees just did what they’d been told to, and punishing would harm their morale. A common mentality in China’s state-owned enterprises or those with governmental backgrounds is they are special and can act like kings. They thought they have the Chinese government behind them, no matter what they do, everything will be fine. And their experience at home and abroad impressed them more so. Since they had never learned a lesson or paid a price, they would go on cheating recklessly. Moreover, a prevailing mindset in China is that cheating is not shameful; it is a shame only when you get caught. ZTE assumed it knew how to cope with the US government, knew their logic of doing things. Speaking of selling technologies to Iran and North Korea, I think this might be under the instruction from the Chinese government. I’m afraid they never dreamed that this U.S. administration would take it seriously.”

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):Riley Walters是传统基金会亚洲研究中心的政策研究员。他专长于新兴科技,网络安全和东北亚宏观经济。来听听他有什么看法。
Host3: Riley Walters is a policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation’s Asian Studies Center. He specializes in emerging technologies and cybersecurity as well as Northeast Asian macroeconomics. Here’s what he has to say.

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“中国大陆对商务部制裁‘中兴’的另一个反应是,互联网巨头马云誓言要开发大陆自己的芯片。以您之见,如果大陆真能在某些关键技术上有所突破,是否就可以置身于国际商业准则之外?”
“ Another Chinese reaction to the DOC’s punishment of ZTE was that the Chinese magnate Ma Yun vowed to make China’s own chips. Do you think by developing these core technologies China can become independent of the international business regulations?”

Riley Water(传统基金会亚洲研究中心政策研究员):“中国大陆确实有可能独立研发原创技术。不过,必须要有投入。中国大陆和美国一样,非常依赖国际市场和海外科技。所以,即使中国大陆真能为‘中兴’开发出其所需的软硬件,这样做也不会有什么经济效益。而且还可能挤占了其它项目的资金,影响国家整体的科研计划和未来发展前景。”
“Yeah. It’s certainly possible for China to either become an indigenous innovator or autonomous innovator. There, of course, are costs with this. China, just like the United States, has become very reliant on the international market and innovation ideas from outside of their own borders. And so, while China, I think, could potentially domestically create the machine and software that ZTE requires, it’s going to be costly. And doing so will – it’ll have a heavy cost and it could potentially limit innovation and future growth prospects.”

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“中国大陆是世界第二大经济体,正在对大量西方国家的公司投资或实行并购,您是否认为中共政权能用经济力量取代西方国家,成为信息技术标准的制定者?”
“ China is the 2nd largest economy in the world, it is investing and purchasing a large number of Western companies, do you think by expanding economic power, the Chinese Communist regime will eventually be able to replace the Western countries and become the standard setter for information technologies?”

Riley Water(传统基金会亚洲研究中心政策研究员):“我认为中国大陆要引领世界科技的发展潮流,会面临一些困难。有人希望中国大陆能推动新兴技术的发展,并且成为技术标准的制定者。我觉得即使在美国,也有很多人不知道争夺技术标准制定权的意义。在所有技术领域都存在这种争夺。但是,就算中国大陆真能开发出5G的原创技术标准,也不见得能被外国接受。一些新兴经济体可能会接受。但是在西方世界就不一定了,比如欧洲,特别是西欧、美国、加拿大、北美地区,所以未来会有竞争,我觉得中共政府和大陆企业将长期面临这一课题。”
“ Yeah. I think China will have its limitations as it seeks to become the leader in a lot of these technologies. There’s talk about how China wants to become the standard setter and sort of the global powerhouse for a lot of emerging technologies. And I think what a lot of people, even within the United States, don’t understand is there’s still competition in standardized setting with all technologies. And almost in every sector. While China might be able to indigenously, as we were talking about, indigenously, domestically develop its own 5G, that doesn’t necessarily mean it will be implemented abroad. Some countries might be willing to adapt these standards, such as other emerging economies, but when we look toward the developing world, when we look toward Europe, especially Western Europe, United States, Canada, North America, it’s not necessarily something that’s for sure. So there will be competition, I think. And I think the Chinese government and Chinese companies will continue to see this going forward. ”

Coming up: Why is intellectual property theft a security issue, and what should America be worried about?

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“中兴”并不是美国担忧的唯一一家中国大陆公司。“华为”这家中国大陆第一的通讯设备公司,也卷入过多个争议中。其中多起都是和盗窃美国公司的知识产权有关。
ZTE isn’t the only Chinese company the US has been worried about. Huawei, China’s number one telecommunications company, has been involved in multiple controversies. Many involve stealing intellectual property rights from US tech companies.

Both companies face criticism over potential ties to the Chinese Communist regime. Recently uncovered internal company documentation suggests that Huawei and ZTE receive support, financial subsidies, and large contributions for R&D research from the Chinese government. In an interview with Voice of America, Chinese economist Xia Yeliang said that a private company like Huawei actually has ties to the Chinese military as well. Huawei’s founder, Ren Zhengfei, even directed the People’s Liberation Army Information Engineering Academy. They provide technical products to the Chinese military.

4月11日,前国家反间谍机构负责人Michelle Van Cleave在众议院一个委员会上就技术盗窃问题作证。
On April 11, former national counterintelligence executive Michelle Van Cleave testified at a House committee about intellectual theft.

Michelle Van Cleave(前国家反间谍机构负责人):“美国是间谍的天堂。我们自由,公开的社会环境是阴谋活动的温床。我们委员会清楚的知道,外国势力针对美国的研发机密下手,系统性的窃取我们的创意、产品、技术、和财富,来发展自己的工商业和军工项目,反过来与我们竞争。美国拥有一些中俄两国渴求的技术。这两家为此大搞阴谋活动,比如通过空壳公司,搞联合研发,网络盗窃,或者传统的间谍活动。美国的学术研究机构拥有创造型人才和强大科研能力,他们是技术盗窃活动的主要目标。要我说,窃案的数量非常之大,我们每年投入5100亿美元用于技术开发,大部分成果都被偷走了。根据美国情报部门的报告,这种犯罪现象年复一年日益猖獗,造成的损失越来越大,参与的外国势力越来越多,对国家的危害日甚一日。技术盗窃活动对国家安全和经济力量的损害,也是越发严重。”
“The United States is a spy’s paradise. Our free and open society is tailor-made for clandestine operations. As this committee is so well aware, American R&D — the engine for raw ideas and products and capabilities and wealth — is systematically targeted by foreign collectors to fuel their business and industry and military programs at our expense. China and Russia both have detailed shopping lists of targeted US technologies and specific strategies for clandestine acquisition ranging from front companies to joint R&D —- to cyber theft to old-fashioned espionage.
US academic institutions, with their —- of creative talent and cutting-edge research and open engagement with the world of ideas are an especially attractive environment for these types of activities. Let me say the numbers are, frankly, staggering. For every dollar we invest, some $510 billion annually, we lose most, if not all of that, to these kinds of illicit activities every year. Each year reports out of US intelligence reports numbers are worse than the year before. Losses are growing. Numbers of foreign collectors are growing. Vulnerabilities are growing. And the erosion of US security and economic strength is also growing.”

在诸多的恶意竞争者中,“华为”这个名字绝对是突出的。它可能成为下一家美国惩罚的大陆公司。一些中文媒体声称,这全都是美国在试图削弱大陆通讯产业的竞争力,但是Riley Walters先生并不这么看。
Among all the potential malicious players, Huawei’s name definitely stands out. It might become the next Chinese tech company the US will punish. Some Chinese media say it is all about the US weakening the competitive advantage of China’s telecommunications industry, but Riley Walters disagrees.

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“商务部的下一个目标是‘华为’。一些中文媒体报导说,‘华为’是美国信息行业的威胁,因为它是世界上最大的通讯设备公司。美国政府正密切关注‘华为’的研发活动,包括5G技术、芯片、和智能手机。所以,如果美方的总体战略是压制中共的高科技行业,那么就不可能放过‘华为’。您以为如何?”
“The DOC’s next target might be Huawei. Some Chinese media reports that Huawei poses a threat to America’s IT industry because Huawei is the biggest telecommunications equipment company in the world. The U.S. is highly concerned with Huawei’s next wave of R&D efforts, which includes 5G, chips, and smartphones. So if the overarching strategy of America is to suppress the development of China’s high-tech industry, Huawei will be the biggest target. Do you agree with their views?”

Riley Water(传统基金会亚洲研究中心政策研究员):“安全上的威胁。2012年度众议院报告里重点提到,不仅因为‘华为’和‘中兴’两家公司的性质,它们在通讯和基础设施上的投资,更大的威胁在于这两家与中共政府的关系。我觉得美国各界最关心的,不是在新兴技术上失去竞争优势,不是5G, 也不是‘华为’和‘中兴’的软硬件开发能力,至少这些方面不是美国政府最关心的,因为政府的能力是有限的。我认为美国政府的当务之急是确保网络安全。”
I believe the United States’ government has more concerns with the cybersecurity concerns that Huawei and ZTE present. This was highlighted in a 2012 Intel. House report that noted both ZTE and Huawei, not only the nature of their company, the investments in telecommunications and infrastructure and that sort, but also the potential connections with the Chinese government could pose some potential risks. There are concerns, I think, that the United States might potentially lose its competitive edge over emerging technologies, 5G, the hardware and software development of these companies, but I don’t really think that’s so much for concern, especially from the United States government’s side. There’s very little that they can do. It’s more focused on the cybersecurity concerns, I think.

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):关于中共长期盗窃知识产权,我和文昭也有交流。听听他怎么说。
I also talked to Wen Zhao about China’s long-standing policy of intellectual property theft. Let’s take a listen.

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“中国进行知识产权盗窃的主要原因之一是自己的创新和研发能力弱,为什么中国的创新能力弱呢?”
“One of the main reasons behind China’s intellectual property theft is that China is weak in innovation. Why is this so? ”

“It’s certainly a complicated and systematic issue. Each industry or field has its own causes for weak innovation. Globally, Chinese technology ranks fourth. The U.S. is at level 1, at the core place. The developed countries, say, the UK, France, Germany, and Japan are at level 2. And the average-developed countries — Canada, Australia, Norway, Israel and South Korea — are at level 3. And the lowest level includes developing countries like mainland China, Mexico, India. So it’s awkward for China’s economic scale. China also lacks creativity in humanities. I think both sides should be viewed. Creativity, either in science and technology or in humanities, is something revolutionary by nature — a constructive denial of our forefathers. But in China’s present education system, revolutionary or critical thinking is suppressed; people are taught to be submissive to survive. When all the minds are treated like that, a nation’s creativity will be choked. A historical fact is that whichever nation is in an era of great inventions also produces great philosophers and poets. However, today’s China is not innovation friendly; it encourages obedience rather than challenging; and the Chinese Communist Party controls, ideologically, its education and all other cultural fields.”

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):“别人研发要花钱、花时间,但是中国通过盗窃一下就能把这些技术拿到手。那麽,中国能够通过盗窃知识产权成为科技强国吗?”
“Can China become a tech superpower by stealing other companies’ technology?”

“Well, to answer this question, we must understand that, actually, innovation does not mean merely acquiring a patent. It is a process of a great deal of trial and error. Such a setback-experiencing process is very valuable. It sharpens your ideas or insights in a certain field. It helps you build up experience and gives you insights. It’s a blunder to assume that stealing away design drawings or secret data means mastering knowledge. That sounds like a kung fu story in which a thief daydreams he’s the No. 1 martial arts master in the world if he seizes a rare, secret martial arts manuscript. But that’s not possible. Innovation is a process, and means quality, which will become a habit and an ethical value among scientists in the end. It has to be nurtured bit by bit in daily work. Another point: Innovation usually starts from a tiny, local beginning. It requires solid accumulation before a great breakthrough comes. However, if you exchange access to the market for technology and import complete sets of technology and capacity, as in China’s auto industry, you cannot assimilate them without local innovation as a support. You can never create a complete technical system at the very beginning. Then you’ll have to depend on forced technical transfer or theft again. When others’ technology is upgraded, you’ll have to keep stealing because you don’t have any innovation abilities. So, the conflict worsens. This is true with many of China’s fields. Under these circumstances, China will never be a top country in technology.”

Coming up: In today’s trade-based foreign policy, what’s the future for US-China relations?

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):美中贸易战最近频繁出现在媒体报导中。但是有些人说贸易战其实几年前就开始了。中国的不公平贸易手段,这些违反自由贸易原则的做法,已经给美国带来了不公平的伤害。事情是怎么发展到这一步的?两个根本不同的意识形态能共存吗?我们来探讨一下。
The US-China trade war has been in the news a lot recently. But some argue that the trade war started years ago. China’s unfair trade practices, which are illegal under free-trade rules, have put the US at an unfair disadvantage. How did it get to this point? And can two fundamentally different ideologies coexist? Let’s take a look.

US-China relations have fundamentally changed since Nixon reached out to China in the ‘70s. At the time, the US wanted to use China to counter the Soviet Union’s threat. The Carter administration based its foreign policy on human rights. Reagan based his on anti-communism. Despite differences, their ideologies were still based on Democratic principles.

This changed during the Clinton administration. Clinton helped China join the World Trade Organization. Value-based foreign policy was exchanged for a trade-based foreign policy. Many hoped this would help China move towards democracy. It could also help the US economically by selling US-made goods to China.

A couple decades later, it’s US jobs, not goods, that were shipped to China. Now China’s the 2nd largest economy in the world. Yet it’s still an authoritarian regime. Meanwhile, its economic power enables it to influence the US in various ways. Its investment and purchase of American businesses and infiltration in media and government has caused America to compromise its fundamental values.

萧茗(Host/Simone Gao):西方世界和中共在很多事情上的看法都迥异。知识产权就是其中一个。在西方,知识产权保护和资本主义相伴而生。1787年,美国制定了宪法,三年之后专利法就诞生了。在法国大革命中,专利法甚至比宪法更早成型,保护知识产权是资本主义成长的必要条件。但是在中国就不一样,中共的第一个专利法是1984年制定的,在他们掌权35年以后。但是时间还不是最关键的,关键的是两种意识形态对人民的权利和自由的看法非常不同,这也是很多美中冲突的来源,我担心以后还是会如此。感谢您收看这期的《世事关心》,我是萧茗。下周再见。
The West and China have contrasting views on many things. Intellectual property rights is one of them. In the West, the birth of property rights accompanied the birth of capitalism. In 1787, the US constitution was drafted. Three years later the patent law was born. During the French revolution, the birth of patent law even took precedence over the Constitution. Protecting intellectual property rights is a necessary condition for the growth of capitalism. However, things are different in China. The first official Chinese patent law was made in 1984, 35 years after the CCP took power. But timing is not the point here. The point is how the two ideological systems look at people’s rights and freedom differently. That has been the source of many conflicts between the US and China. I am afraid it will continue to be that way. Thanks for watching 《Zooming In》. I am Simone Gao and see you next week.

Producer:Simone Gao
Writer:Simone Gao, Jess Beatty, Michelle Wan
Editors:Julian Kuo, Bin Tang, Melodie Von, Frank Lin
Narrator: Rich Crankshaw
Cameraman:Wei Wu
Transcription: Jess Beatty
Translation: Frank Yue,Michelle Wan, Greg Yang, Xiaofeng Zhang
Special Effects:Harrison Sun
Assistant producer:Bin Tang, Sherry Chang, Merry Jiang

Host accessories are sponsored by Yun Boutique

New Tang Dynasty Television
May, 2018



美东: 周二: 21:30
周六: 9:30

美西: 周二: 21:30
周六: 12:30
周日: 9:30

旧金山: 周二: 22:00
周六: 12:30
周日: 9:30