【世事關心】美政府重創中興 影響超過貿易戰

【新唐人北京時間2018年05月02日訊】【世事關心】(467)美政府重創中興 影響超過貿易戰:禁止美國公司在未來7年內向中興通訊出售技術,中國大陸其他公司是否會引以為戒?知識產權被盜對於美國造成的損失有多嚴重?中國大陸能否通過竊取別人的技術而成為科技大國?如果國家安全問題變得突出,能否解決這個問題?

ZTE got hit hard. Will China learn its lesson?

“A prevailing mindset in China is that cheating is not shameful; it is a shame only when you get caught. ”

How damaging is intellectual property theft to America?

Riley Water(傳統基金會亞洲研究中心政策研究員):「我擔心的是,美國可能會失去在新技術上的競爭優勢。」
“There are concerns, I think, that the United States might potentially lose its competitive edge over emerging technologies. ”

Can China become a tech superpower by stealing other people’s technology?

“ It’s a blunder to assume that stealing away design drawings or secret data means mastering knowledge. ”

and if national security issues elevate, can it be resolved?

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):歡迎收看《世事關心》,我是蕭茗。長期以來,中共一直在進行違反自由貿易原則的不公平貿易活動。中國大陸的公司也以違規和盜竊知識產權而知名。中共宣稱自己要成為世界的技術領導者。可是一個依靠竊取技術,而不是自主創新的國家能成為技術領導者嗎?美國又應該擔心什麼呢?中共能否通過經濟擴張,使自己那套行事方式代替西方的商業倫理?這一期的《世事關心》,我們來探討這些問題。
Welcome to 《Zooming In》. I’m Simone Gao. China has long been involved in unfair trade practices that are illegal under free-trade rules. Chinese companies are also known for violating regulations and stealing intellectual property. China has said it wants to become the world’s leader in technology. But can a country that relies on stealing research instead of innovation ever become a true tech leader? What should the U.S. be worried about? And will China’s economic expansion replace Western business ethics with the Chinese Communist Party’s way of doing things? We’ll explore these questions and more in this episode of 《Zooming In》.

The state-owned enterprise, ZTE, is China’s second largest telecommunications equipment company. It uses Google’s Android system and incorporates US chips and technology in its smartphones. It has violated US export regulations for several years by shipping telecommunications equipment to Iran and North Korea.

In 2010, ZTE sold the Iranian regime a surveillance system capable of spying on its own citizens through landline, mobile, and internet communications. ZTE continued selling US technology to Iran despite America’s longtime ban on selling non-humanitarian items.

2016年3月,因「中興」違規向伊朗出售美制高科技設備,美國政府對其實施了禁運。 美國商務部公布了「中興」的法律部門的備忘錄,顯示該公司具體指導員工如何建立空殼公司,以擺脫美國出口管制。
In March 2016, the US restricted sales to ZTE for exporting US-made high-tech goods to Iran. The Commerce Department released memos from ZTE’s legal department showing a step-by-step guide to setting up shell companies to skirt US export controls.

In March 2017, Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross announced a $1.19 billion dollar penalty for ZTE’s export violations to Iran and North Korea.

Wilbur Ross(美國商務部長): 「我們這麼做是昭告世人——不公平貿易的時代結束了。那些無視我國經濟制裁,違反出口管制條例和其它貿易制度的人,不可能逃脫懲罰,他們將承擔最嚴重的後果。 『中興』的案子只是起點,川普政府會盡力執行嚴格的貿易政策,一定要維護國家安全和美國工人的利益。『中興』公司厚顏無恥的違法行徑危害國家安全,令人憤慨。一旦法院批準,『中興』將立即支付八億九千兩百萬美元的罰款,另有三億美元的罰款將緩期七年執行。『中興』還同意接受剝奪七年出口特權的緩期處罰。這兩項處罰都有長期震懾作用。如果未來『中興』違反協議,處罰將被立即執行。」
“ With this action, we are putting the world on notice: improper trade games are over. Those who flout our economic sanctions, export control laws, and any other trade regimes, will not go unpunished – they will suffer the harshest of consequences. But this case is just the beginning: Under President Trump’s leadership, we will be aggressively enforcing strong trade policies with the dual purpose of protecting American national security and protecting American workers. ZTE, whose brazen disregard for our laws was as insulting as it was dangerous, will, if approved by the court, first pay an immediate out-of-pocket monetary penalty of 892 million dollars. ZTE has then further agreed to a 7-year suspended denial order and a 7-year 300 million dollar suspended fine, both of which provide long-term deterrence. If they step out of line, those penalties will be immediately imposed.”

「中興」的確違規了。商務部確認,在「中興」因之前違規而被監督的2016和2017年間,該公司做了虛假陳述,掩蓋了其向從事非法行為的員工支付全額獎金的事實,這些違規的員工本應受到懲罰。商務部稱,「中興通訊」承認違反了380項規定。 2018年4月16日,美國商務部禁止美國公司在未來7年內向「中興通訊」出售技術。
And they did step out of line. The Department of Commerce determined that ZTE made false statements in 2016 and in 2017 during the probationary period. ZTE covered up the fact that they paid full bonuses to employees who engaged in illegal conduct. They were supposed to have punished them instead. The DOC announcement said ZTE admitted committing 380 regulations violations. On April 16, 2018, the Department of Commerce banned US companies from selling technology to ZTE for 7 years.

Following the DOC’s announcement, several Mainland Chinese media reported one of ZTE’s upstream companies has ordered over 1000 employees who are working for ZTE to take an indefinite vacation. A number of the ZTE production lines have stopped operating. However, this report was quickly removed from all Mainland Chinese media. An NTD TV reporter contacted a ZTE service partner, who confirmed the indefinite vacation.

電話採訪(與中興通訊有業務聯繫的先生):「『 中興』是我們的固定客戶,我怎麼知道放幾天,我看他們朋友圈發的,具體幾天不知道。」
「ZTE is my client, I saw they sent out the message that they were asked to go on vacation, but I don’t how many days. ”

According to the report, 80,000 ZTE employees, together with its service providers, channel providers, and partners are all heavily affected.

4月20日,在「中興通訊」新聞發布會上,總裁殷一民表示美國商務部的決定是完全不公平的。 他表示「中興通訊」有整個國家的支持。
On April 20, at a ZTE press conference, its president Yin Yimin described the US Department of Commerce’s decision as utterly unfair. He said ZTE has the backing of the entire nation.

殷一民(中興總裁):「『 中興通訊產品』在國內有市場,有13億人的支持。我相信『中興』可以克服這一挑戰。」
ZTE products have a market here domestically, with the backing of 1.3 billion people. We are confident that we can overcome this challenge.

25-30% of ZTE’s parts are made in the US. Yin Yimin said the ban will put ZTE into shock.

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):關於「中興」事件, 早些時候我和資深政治評論員文昭先生有過討論,一起來聽一下。
I discussed the ZTE incident with senior political commentator Wen Zhao. Here’s what he has to say.

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「美國商務部的聲明中寫到,『中興』在這個過程中違反規定380次,掩蓋違規行為96次。這其中就包括他們隱瞞了對那些涉事員工發獎金的事情 。最後『中興』反駁的時候又說,我們怎麽可能為了這幾個員工甘願承擔三億美元的懲罰?好像美國的指控非常荒謬。我認為他們的行為確實不可理解,已經是在被審查期間了,為什麽知道有可能被嚴厲懲罰,還要繼續給那些員工發獎金?還要繼續通過中介公司向伊朗和朝鮮出售技術?這些國企他們的心態到底是什麽樣的?」
“The DOC Letter states that ZTE admitted 380 regulation violations and 96 evasion violations, including the fact that they gave out bonuses to employees involved. ZTE protested they would never take the risk of a penalty of $300 million US dollars for those employees, as though the U.S. allegations were ridiculous. It’s indeed very hard to understand Why they still give out bonuses to those employees, Why they still sell technologies to Iran and North Korea knowing they would be severely punished if they get caught? What mentality was in those state-owned enterprises?”

“ For Americans, it doesn’t matter whatever motives these Chinese companies had for choosing to repeatedly cheat. What does matter is that they did it. They actually did it and therefore must pay for it. Various possibilities. Maybe their management department just thought Americans wouldn’t mind trivialities like bonuses and wouldn’t follow up. Or they might believe those employees just did what they’d been told to, and punishing would harm their morale. A common mentality in China’s state-owned enterprises or those with governmental backgrounds is they are special and can act like kings. They thought they have the Chinese government behind them, no matter what they do, everything will be fine. And their experience at home and abroad impressed them more so. Since they had never learned a lesson or paid a price, they would go on cheating recklessly. Moreover, a prevailing mindset in China is that cheating is not shameful; it is a shame only when you get caught. ZTE assumed it knew how to cope with the US government, knew their logic of doing things. Speaking of selling technologies to Iran and North Korea, I think this might be under the instruction from the Chinese government. I’m afraid they never dreamed that this U.S. administration would take it seriously.”

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):Riley Walters是傳統基金會亞洲研究中心的政策研究員。他專長於新興科技,網絡安全和東北亞宏觀經濟。來聽聽他有什麼看法。
Host3: Riley Walters is a policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation’s Asian Studies Center. He specializes in emerging technologies and cybersecurity as well as Northeast Asian macroeconomics. Here’s what he has to say.

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「中國大陸對商務部制裁『中興』的另一個反應是,互聯網巨頭馬雲誓言要開發大陸自己的芯片。以您之見,如果大陸真能在某些關鍵技術上有所突破,是否就可以置身於國際商業準則之外?」
“ Another Chinese reaction to the DOC’s punishment of ZTE was that the Chinese magnate Ma Yun vowed to make China’s own chips. Do you think by developing these core technologies China can become independent of the international business regulations?”

Riley Water(傳統基金會亞洲研究中心政策研究員):「中國大陸確實有可能獨立研發原創技術。不過,必須要有投入。中國大陸和美國一樣,非常依賴國際市場和海外科技。所以,即使中國大陸真能為『中興』開發出其所需的軟硬件,這樣做也不會有什麼經濟效益。而且還可能擠占了其它項目的資金,影響國家整體的科研計劃和未來發展前景。」
“Yeah. It’s certainly possible for China to either become an indigenous innovator or autonomous innovator. There, of course, are costs with this. China, just like the United States, has become very reliant on the international market and innovation ideas from outside of their own borders. And so, while China, I think, could potentially domestically create the machine and software that ZTE requires, it’s going to be costly. And doing so will – it’ll have a heavy cost and it could potentially limit innovation and future growth prospects.”

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「中國大陸是世界第二大經濟體,正在對大量西方國家的公司投資或實行併購,您是否認為中共政權能用經濟力量取代西方國家,成為信息技術標準的制定者?」
“ China is the 2nd largest economy in the world, it is investing and purchasing a large number of Western companies, do you think by expanding economic power, the Chinese Communist regime will eventually be able to replace the Western countries and become the standard setter for information technologies?”

Riley Water(傳統基金會亞洲研究中心政策研究員):「我認為中國大陸要引領世界科技的發展潮流,會面臨一些困難。有人希望中國大陸能推動新興技術的發展,並且成為技術標準的制定者。我覺得即使在美國,也有很多人不知道爭奪技術標準制定權的意義。在所有技術領域都存在這種爭奪。但是,就算中國大陸真能開發出5G的原創技術標準,也不見得能被外國接受。一些新興經濟體可能會接受。但是在西方世界就不一定了,比如歐洲,特別是西歐、美國、加拿大、北美地區,所以未來會有競爭,我覺得中共政府和大陸企業將長期面臨這一課題。」
“ Yeah. I think China will have its limitations as it seeks to become the leader in a lot of these technologies. There’s talk about how China wants to become the standard setter and sort of the global powerhouse for a lot of emerging technologies. And I think what a lot of people, even within the United States, don’t understand is there’s still competition in standardized setting with all technologies. And almost in every sector. While China might be able to indigenously, as we were talking about, indigenously, domestically develop its own 5G, that doesn’t necessarily mean it will be implemented abroad. Some countries might be willing to adapt these standards, such as other emerging economies, but when we look toward the developing world, when we look toward Europe, especially Western Europe, United States, Canada, North America, it’s not necessarily something that’s for sure. So there will be competition, I think. And I think the Chinese government and Chinese companies will continue to see this going forward. ”

Coming up: Why is intellectual property theft a security issue, and what should America be worried about?

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「中興」並不是美國擔憂的唯一一家中國大陸公司。「華為」這家中國大陸第一的通訊設備公司,也捲入過多個爭議中。其中多起都是和盜竊美國公司的知識產權有關。
ZTE isn’t the only Chinese company the US has been worried about. Huawei, China’s number one telecommunications company, has been involved in multiple controversies. Many involve stealing intellectual property rights from US tech companies.

Both companies face criticism over potential ties to the Chinese Communist regime. Recently uncovered internal company documentation suggests that Huawei and ZTE receive support, financial subsidies, and large contributions for R&D research from the Chinese government. In an interview with Voice of America, Chinese economist Xia Yeliang said that a private company like Huawei actually has ties to the Chinese military as well. Huawei’s founder, Ren Zhengfei, even directed the People’s Liberation Army Information Engineering Academy. They provide technical products to the Chinese military.

4月11日,前國家反間諜機構負責人Michelle Van Cleave在眾議院一個委員會上就技術盜竊問題作證。
On April 11, former national counterintelligence executive Michelle Van Cleave testified at a House committee about intellectual theft.

Michelle Van Cleave(前國家反間諜機構負責人):「美國是間諜的天堂。我們自由,公開的社會環境是陰謀活動的溫床。我們委員會清楚的知道,外國勢力針對美國的研發機密下手,系統性的竊取我們的創意、產品、技術、和財富,來發展自己的工商業和軍工項目,反過來與我們競爭。美國擁有一些中俄兩國渴求的技術。這兩家為此大搞陰謀活動,比如通過空殼公司,搞聯合研發,網絡盜竊,或者傳統的間諜活動。美國的學術研究機構擁有創造型人才和強大科研能力,他們是技術盜竊活動的主要目標。要我說,竊案的數量非常之大,我們每年投入5100億美元用於技術開發,大部分成果都被偷走了。根據美國情報部門的報告,這種犯罪現象年復一年日益猖獗,造成的損失越來越大,參與的外國勢力越來越多,對國家的危害日甚一日。技術盜竊活動對國家安全和經濟力量的損害,也是越發嚴重。」
“The United States is a spy’s paradise. Our free and open society is tailor-made for clandestine operations. As this committee is so well aware, American R&D — the engine for raw ideas and products and capabilities and wealth — is systematically targeted by foreign collectors to fuel their business and industry and military programs at our expense. China and Russia both have detailed shopping lists of targeted US technologies and specific strategies for clandestine acquisition ranging from front companies to joint R&D —- to cyber theft to old-fashioned espionage.
US academic institutions, with their —- of creative talent and cutting-edge research and open engagement with the world of ideas are an especially attractive environment for these types of activities. Let me say the numbers are, frankly, staggering. For every dollar we invest, some $510 billion annually, we lose most, if not all of that, to these kinds of illicit activities every year. Each year reports out of US intelligence reports numbers are worse than the year before. Losses are growing. Numbers of foreign collectors are growing. Vulnerabilities are growing. And the erosion of US security and economic strength is also growing.”

在諸多的惡意競爭者中,「華為」這個名字絕對是突出的。它可能成為下一家美國懲罰的大陸公司。一些中文媒體聲稱,這全都是美國在試圖削弱大陸通訊產業的競爭力,但是Riley Walters先生並不這麼看。
Among all the potential malicious players, Huawei’s name definitely stands out. It might become the next Chinese tech company the US will punish. Some Chinese media say it is all about the US weakening the competitive advantage of China’s telecommunications industry, but Riley Walters disagrees.

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「商務部的下一個目標是『華為』。一些中文媒體報導說,『華為』是美國信息行業的威脅,因為它是世界上最大的通訊設備公司。美國政府正密切關注『華為』的研發活動,包括5G技術、芯片、和智能手機。所以,如果美方的總體戰略是壓制中共的高科技行業,那麼就不可能放過『華為』。您以為如何?」
「The DOC’s next target might be Huawei. Some Chinese media reports that Huawei poses a threat to America’s IT industry because Huawei is the biggest telecommunications equipment company in the world. The U.S. is highly concerned with Huawei’s next wave of R&D efforts, which includes 5G, chips, and smartphones. So if the overarching strategy of America is to suppress the development of China’s high-tech industry, Huawei will be the biggest target. Do you agree with their views?”

Riley Water(傳統基金會亞洲研究中心政策研究員):「安全上的威脅。2012年度眾議院報告裡重點提到,不僅因為『華為』和『中興』兩家公司的性質,它們在通訊和基礎設施上的投資,更大的威脅在於這兩家與中共政府的關係。我覺得美國各界最關心的,不是在新興技術上失去競爭優勢,不是5G, 也不是『華為』和『中興』的軟硬件開發能力,至少這些方面不是美國政府最關心的,因為政府的能力是有限的。我認為美國政府的當務之急是確保網絡安全。」
I believe the United States’ government has more concerns with the cybersecurity concerns that Huawei and ZTE present. This was highlighted in a 2012 Intel. House report that noted both ZTE and Huawei, not only the nature of their company, the investments in telecommunications and infrastructure and that sort, but also the potential connections with the Chinese government could pose some potential risks. There are concerns, I think, that the United States might potentially lose its competitive edge over emerging technologies, 5G, the hardware and software development of these companies, but I don’t really think that’s so much for concern, especially from the United States government’s side. There’s very little that they can do. It’s more focused on the cybersecurity concerns, I think.

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):關於中共長期盜竊知識產權,我和文昭也有交流。聽聽他怎麼說。
I also talked to Wen Zhao about China’s long-standing policy of intellectual property theft. Let’s take a listen.

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「中國進行知識產權盜竊的主要原因之一是自己的創新和研發能力弱,為什麽中國的創新能力弱呢?」
“One of the main reasons behind China’s intellectual property theft is that China is weak in innovation. Why is this so? ”

“It’s certainly a complicated and systematic issue. Each industry or field has its own causes for weak innovation. Globally, Chinese technology ranks fourth. The U.S. is at level 1, at the core place. The developed countries, say, the UK, France, Germany, and Japan are at level 2. And the average-developed countries — Canada, Australia, Norway, Israel and South Korea — are at level 3. And the lowest level includes developing countries like mainland China, Mexico, India. So it’s awkward for China’s economic scale. China also lacks creativity in humanities. I think both sides should be viewed. Creativity, either in science and technology or in humanities, is something revolutionary by nature — a constructive denial of our forefathers. But in China’s present education system, revolutionary or critical thinking is suppressed; people are taught to be submissive to survive. When all the minds are treated like that, a nation’s creativity will be choked. A historical fact is that whichever nation is in an era of great inventions also produces great philosophers and poets. However, today’s China is not innovation friendly; it encourages obedience rather than challenging; and the Chinese Communist Party controls, ideologically, its education and all other cultural fields.”

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):「別人研發要花錢、花時間,但是中國通過盜竊一下就能把這些技術拿到手。那麽,中國能夠通過盜竊知識產權成為科技強國嗎?」
「Can China become a tech superpower by stealing other companies’ technology?”

“Well, to answer this question, we must understand that, actually, innovation does not mean merely acquiring a patent. It is a process of a great deal of trial and error. Such a setback-experiencing process is very valuable. It sharpens your ideas or insights in a certain field. It helps you build up experience and gives you insights. It’s a blunder to assume that stealing away design drawings or secret data means mastering knowledge. That sounds like a kung fu story in which a thief daydreams he’s the No. 1 martial arts master in the world if he seizes a rare, secret martial arts manuscript. But that’s not possible. Innovation is a process, and means quality, which will become a habit and an ethical value among scientists in the end. It has to be nurtured bit by bit in daily work. Another point: Innovation usually starts from a tiny, local beginning. It requires solid accumulation before a great breakthrough comes. However, if you exchange access to the market for technology and import complete sets of technology and capacity, as in China’s auto industry, you cannot assimilate them without local innovation as a support. You can never create a complete technical system at the very beginning. Then you’ll have to depend on forced technical transfer or theft again. When others’ technology is upgraded, you’ll have to keep stealing because you don’t have any innovation abilities. So, the conflict worsens. This is true with many of China’s fields. Under these circumstances, China will never be a top country in technology.”

Coming up: In today’s trade-based foreign policy, what’s the future for US-China relations?

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):美中貿易戰最近頻繁出現在媒體報導中。但是有些人說貿易戰其實幾年前就開始了。中國的不公平貿易手段,這些違反自由貿易原則的做法,已經給美國帶來了不公平的傷害。事情是怎麼發展到這一步的?兩個根本不同的意識形態能共存嗎?我們來探討一下。
The US-China trade war has been in the news a lot recently. But some argue that the trade war started years ago. China’s unfair trade practices, which are illegal under free-trade rules, have put the US at an unfair disadvantage. How did it get to this point? And can two fundamentally different ideologies coexist? Let’s take a look.

US-China relations have fundamentally changed since Nixon reached out to China in the ‘70s. At the time, the US wanted to use China to counter the Soviet Union’s threat. The Carter administration based its foreign policy on human rights. Reagan based his on anti-communism. Despite differences, their ideologies were still based on Democratic principles.

This changed during the Clinton administration. Clinton helped China join the World Trade Organization. Value-based foreign policy was exchanged for a trade-based foreign policy. Many hoped this would help China move towards democracy. It could also help the US economically by selling US-made goods to China.

A couple decades later, it’s US jobs, not goods, that were shipped to China. Now China’s the 2nd largest economy in the world. Yet it’s still an authoritarian regime. Meanwhile, its economic power enables it to influence the US in various ways. Its investment and purchase of American businesses and infiltration in media and government has caused America to compromise its fundamental values.

蕭茗(Host/Simone Gao):西方世界和中共在很多事情上的看法都迥異。知識產權就是其中一個。在西方,知識產權保護和資本主義相伴而生。1787年,美國制定了憲法,三年之後專利法就誕生了。在法國大革命中,專利法甚至比憲法更早成型,保護知識產權是資本主義成長的必要條件。但是在中國就不一樣,中共的第一個專利法是1984年制定的,在他們掌權35年以後。但是時間還不是最關鍵的,關鍵的是兩種意識形態對人民的權利和自由的看法非常不同,這也是很多美中衝突的來源,我擔心以後還是會如此。感謝您收看這期的《世事關心》,我是蕭茗。下週再見。
The West and China have contrasting views on many things. Intellectual property rights is one of them. In the West, the birth of property rights accompanied the birth of capitalism. In 1787, the US constitution was drafted. Three years later the patent law was born. During the French revolution, the birth of patent law even took precedence over the Constitution. Protecting intellectual property rights is a necessary condition for the growth of capitalism. However, things are different in China. The first official Chinese patent law was made in 1984, 35 years after the CCP took power. But timing is not the point here. The point is how the two ideological systems look at people’s rights and freedom differently. That has been the source of many conflicts between the US and China. I am afraid it will continue to be that way. Thanks for watching 《Zooming In》. I am Simone Gao and see you next week.

Producer:Simone Gao
Writer:Simone Gao, Jess Beatty, Michelle Wan
Editors:Julian Kuo, Bin Tang, Melodie Von, Frank Lin
Narrator: Rich Crankshaw
Cameraman:Wei Wu
Transcription: Jess Beatty
Translation: Frank Yue,Michelle Wan, Greg Yang, Xiaofeng Zhang
Special Effects:Harrison Sun
Assistant producer:Bin Tang, Sherry Chang, Merry Jiang

Host accessories are sponsored by Yun Boutique

New Tang Dynasty Television
May, 2018



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週六: 9:30

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週六: 12:30
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